Computer Advice

"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo) 08/27/2013 at 21:32 • Filed to: Oppo Computer Geeks

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My wife is getting her Master's in Applied Stats.

She would like to have something she can carry to classes and be able to look up study info, process some stats, create notes, etc.

We have an iPad 2 3G with a Bluetooth keyboard, and an Asus Bamboo running Win7 from about 3-4 years ago. Core i3/i5, 4GB RAM.

She'd like something light enough that doesn't feel loaded down carrying it around. The Asus has a 15" screen, so it's too large to cart around but it would work to process the stats.

I was thinking a Macbook Air running Win7 with Parallels might work. And I've wanted to get one for a while. Win7 is okay, but I'm not really that fussed about it. However, if that's not the best solution we're open to other ideas.

Ideally around $800 would be nice. (I know Macbook is a stretch, probably have to go used/refurb) We're not entirely sold on Win8. Though I like the idea of the Surface. We'd probably need the Pro.

She will probably need copious amounts of RAM to process large data sets. Which probably also rules out the Air/Macbook.

Advice?

ddavidn > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/27/2013 at 21:33

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The Macbook (not Air) is a nice machine for Windows or OS X. I've been having good success recommending Lenovo notebooks for great value under $1200.

desertdog5051 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/27/2013 at 21:46

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Get her what will work and do not worry about weight or the cost. (buy her a dumb bell set too, if she thinks it is too heavy).
Jesu Christe. We actually had to carry books when I went to college. Try 5 of those.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > desertdog5051 08/27/2013 at 21:53

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I bet you're real nice hang around...Way to be an ass.

Unless you have something useful about computer to contribute, just keep your thoughts to yourself on this one.

desertdog5051 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/27/2013 at 22:00

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Sorry pal. Did not think it was so sensitive a subject for you. Just saying what I did with my daughter when she was in College and I had no money. And I went to college before computers. Jeez.

Toby F., Manager > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/27/2013 at 22:12

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Try checking out the student discounts Apple & Microsoft provide to current students. Savings on average of $200.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > desertdog5051 08/27/2013 at 22:24

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Well, how else was I supposed respond.

And, it's not like she isn't making do. She does have her text books to carry around as well. Adding another 10 pounds is something she'd like to avoid. I don't blame her, either.

In addition, she's working nearly full-time while taking a full course load.

I'm super proud of her for managing her workload, and doing well in her classes. Sorry for being defensive. I was just looking for computer advice.

desertdog5051 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/27/2013 at 22:32

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We obviously were not on the same page on this one. Let us just let it go and call it a misunderstanding. :)

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > desertdog5051 08/27/2013 at 22:45

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I'm good with that. :thumbup:

sloPro > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/27/2013 at 23:45

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i was looking for something light and powerful a little bit ago, and i settled on a ASUS UX31A.

here is the review from Engadget , which I was basing most of my opinions, just because they tested basically all the laptops in this category, thus all the results are comparable, (as opposed to if u wanted to throw in a review from a different source as well)

It's basically a 1000 dollar laptop, but i got a refurb model from amazon for 650, (a compound effect of it being discounted and amazon new customer application) without a single scratch or any other flaw that i can think of. and as soon as i received i just flushed a minty fresh copy of clean Win7, to get rid of unnecessary stuff.

McMike > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/28/2013 at 07:54

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If they don't care about the OS or being cool/hip, go with a Windows box. There are no shortages of slim, light machines out there.

They are always cheaper, and you can often update memory on them down the road.

Hermann > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/28/2013 at 08:21

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I was on the same hunt for my lady, who also needs some power for CAD and stuff. I came to the conclusion that for $800 you basically better chose between portability and power. Most have 6GB of RAM, some even 8. But if they're portable, they lack battery and processing power/graphics. If they have the power, they are massive and heavy. Although, this was months ago. Right before Haswell. They say these new CPUs have some amazing power and graphics.

If you stretch it to Macbook prices, you can get a decent one from Asus or Lenovo. Dell has some nice options, too.

Nibbles > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/28/2013 at 09:35

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64 GB Surface Pro is on sale for 800 right now. The 128 GB is 900. Get it, revel in how awesome it is, and forget your worries about Windows 8 - it is the cat's pajamas, especially on the Surface.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Nibbles 08/28/2013 at 10:26

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Would it have issues running through huge data sets using the stats prgrams she needs? I'm worried they just don't have enough RAM or enough POWAA! to not get bogged down when she needs to process huge files.

trynthink > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/28/2013 at 12:32

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If she is getting a masters in Applied Statistics, she's probably going to want to be able to do stat projects and research on her own computer, so she doesn't have to bother with going to a lab to do that work. Also, though you do have the Asus, I find that it's kind of a pain to have to move work between computers.

I am getting a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering now and I've been using the same MacBook Pro for the past 4 years. One thing that's actually pretty important to realize is that for a lot of data processing and statistical applications, the big bottleneck in system performance is the hard drive. A 5400-7200 RPM drive is significantly slower than the SATA connection between the drive and the logic board, or any of the connections on the board itself. For the kind of work she's doing, she'll probably see more of a performance benefit from a slightly older computer with an SSD than a factory-fresh computer with a standard HDD.

Does she really love Windows for some reason? Do her peers all use Windows or does she have to use Windows-only software? I have Windows 7 on Fusion installed on this computer but I haven't used it in well over a year. I can get all of my work done with Python (already installed with the Mac OS), R (which is a better experience on Mac or Linux), LaTeX (arguably easier to use on a Mac or Linux also), and other mostly free, open-source programs.

tl;dr: I don't know why people like to hate on Macs so much, but I've found that I'm far more productive day-to-day on my Mac than I was with a PC and I spend a lot less time fixing dumb sh*t that is a distraction from my work. I think your wife will be happy with a MacBook Air. If you take care of it, you can probably get 4-5 years of solid service from it, and sell it on eBay for $300 when you're done.

trynthink > trynthink 08/28/2013 at 12:38

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Also, to my point about resale value: earlier this year I sold the 8 year old PowerBook G4 I used in college. It was from before the Intel/x86 architecture switch, so it can't even be upgraded to run the latest version of programs or the OS. Despite that, I got $175 for it.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > trynthink 08/28/2013 at 12:43

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This is exactly the type of input I was hoping to get. Thank You!

We are not set on any OS. I would rather have OSX over any Windows#.

I like the idea of the Slate, but mostly because I think their keyboard covers are superbly elegant and I am surprised Apple did not do those first. Windows 8 however, does not appeal to me. We both can deal with Win7, but mostly because it's stable enough that it works. Neither of us are huge fans though. It's like an appliance versus a favorite toy. Win7 works, but we're not looking for reasons to use it.

What worries me about getting an Air is that you cannot throw tons of RAM at it. We don't know how demanding using R, SAS and maybe another Stats program will be on the CPU. But if the bottle neck is the HDD, then having the SSD will indeed help.

trynthink > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/28/2013 at 13:01

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Well, I left a discussion of RAM out of my post because it was already way too long.

I upgraded the RAM on this computer to the maximum it is rated for, which is 8GB. RAM can be a limitation, but there are workarounds in R (I'm not familiar with the memory management capabilities of SAS, Stata, etc.) to enable handling of data that exceeds available RAM. With an SSD, writing to and reading from the hard drive is also a lot faster, so relying on the hard drive to provide some extra space doesn't create an intolerable performance penalty.

You might look online and see if there is anecdotal evidence that the Air can take beyond its rated RAM. For example, my MBP has two slots and could hypothetically take 16 GB. Apple claims it isn't supported, but there are people who have claimed to have done it and the OS recognizes all the RAM in both slots. I didn't try because for my biggest simulations, I have access to an HPC with 96 GB of RAM and 24 cores (and could request access to machines with even more power if I needed it). I would imagine that your wife's school has some sort of HPC facility (or access to one at another university) that she could use if she needed to run absolutely massive simulations.

I think you're already leaning away from getting some sort of iPad-like device, but in case you aren't, I think it's worth the extra money to get a full-blown laptop. It will be a little heavier, but she can actually run the full versions of the software she needs, which will be nice if there are ever any in-class demos, and it will be all the computer she ever needs.

If you do end up getting a Mac, don't forget that she will need to buy the mini DisplayPort to VGA adapter if she is ever going to use the laptop to give presentations with a projector. In my experience, most university classrooms/meeting spaces are equipped with a projector, but only a VGA cable. (Also, before anyone says "with a PC you don't need a stupid dongle," a lot of new PCs that are trying to be thin and light like the Air also require a dongle that is extra cost, it's just usually HDMI to VGA instead of miniDP to VGA.)

Nibbles > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 08/28/2013 at 13:35

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Well it would depend obviously, but in reality it shouldn't have much issue as long as she's not running tons of memory-heavy programs at once. With 4GB DDR3, a quad-core i5 and blazing fucking fast SSDs, it should be able to handle most use.